NTOMBENTSHA NCIZA, a member of the ANC Women's League and a leader of the National Education Coordinating Committee, and DIKELEDI MAGADAZI, secretary general of the Northern Transvaal ANCWL, recently visited Adelaide as part of a work experience exchange organised by the women's section of the South Australian ANC Solidarity Group. They spoke to Green Left Weekly's TULLY BATES and MELANIE SJOBERG about their activities and the role of the ANCWL.
Please tell us about yourselves and your activities in the Women's League.
Nciza: I'm from the southern Transvaal, working as an educator at a nursing college. Since 1984 I've been working with the National Education Coordinating Committee (NECC). I have represented the region at national workshops, but I'm presently involved in local activities.
The main objective of the NECC is to look at the transformation of the education system and to ensure that there is democratisation in the management of education. We have managed to establish the Parent, Teacher, Student Association (PTSA), which is aimed at joint management of the schools. Although the regime says it doesn't mind these institutions, they have created blocks which make it impossible for PTSA to function effectively.
We hope that once the ANC wins the elections, it will have more power to influence the direction of the country. The ANC education policy endorses the PTSA.
With the emergence of the AIDS epidemic in South Africa, one had to look at priorities, and I chose the struggle against AIDS. Research done in 1992 revealed that the highest peak for AIDS occurs in girls aged 14 years. We believe that we've got to address the control of AIDS in a progressive manner. We must empower our youth to make informed decisions about engaging in unsafe sex.
The latest victory was to launch a national AIDS campaign for COSAS (Congress of South African Students), which is functioning with the NECC. The campaign aims to have students spreading the concept of safe sex.
I have also recently become involved in the activities of the National Committee for Rights of Children. We are aiming at campaigns where we equip children with knowledge of how they can protect their rights, ensuring that every local in every region is planning a collective approach between parents and children, to ensure that everybody understands children's rights. On June 16 we launched a Charter for Children's Rights.
What role is the Women's League playing in the negotiations process?
Nciza: The ANCWL is part of the ANC, so it is not presenting itself as a [separate] entity. However, because of the problem of the marginalisation of women, the ANCWL had to make it a point that women were represented in the negotiations. ANC secretary general Cyril Ramaphosa was vocal about the importance of women participating as delegates. We believe the leaders of the ANCWL [in the negotiations] should ensure that the Women's League is vocal and that women's issues are not undermined.
Magadazi: The Women's League is conscious of the need to communicate the rights and needs of women and see that they are represented properly. The other role of the Women's League is to ensure that what is being negotiated is filtered through to the women on the ground.
How will the Women's League help the ANC in the April 27 elections?
Magadazi: The Women's League is engaged in massive election campaigns to educate the people, because the majority of our women are illiterate. We are teaching them all the things that are necessary for the elections and voting. We are doing everything to assist the ANC to win the elections.
Will the Women's League be represented on the candidate list for the ANC?
Nciza: That has not been decided. The Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU) has started to elect candidates, (but) unfortunately out of 20 candidates that they have offered to the ANC, only two are women. The ANC hasn't yet come up with its list of candidates.
The Women's League is going to have a national conference in December. We are hoping that the Women's League is going to vigorously advocate names that will be included in the list of ANC candidates.
Magadazi: At the ANC conference of 1991, there was a feeling from the Women's League that we must have at least 33% women in parliament. But we are prepared to negotiate those numbers because we think it will be best if we get women who will fruitfully represent the Women's League.
Nciza: We don't want token representation. If we feel that women are not yet ready, then it will be a challenge for the Women's League to develop women so that we can present them. I think it is an international phenomenon where women fail to identify with women that are skilled.
How will women on the candidate list be accountable to the ANCWL?
Nciza: There will be dual accountability. Whilst we are going to be providing the ANC with the names, those people will not be leading the Women's League, they will be leading the country. So they will have to be accountable to the ANC and the ANC's constituency.
When the ANC takes over as the government, then they will be accountable to the ordinary person in the street, irrespective of political identification. However, we will have to devise a mechanism for ensuring that women are accountable, because they may find themselves entrenched within the bureaucracy and forget about women's issues.
We will ensure that there is a mechanism where the women don't forget what put them there; so we'll definitely have to have lines of accountability back to the ordinary women of the ANC who managed to push them up there.
Nciza: The Women's League is aware of the challenges that are going to follow after the elections. Elections are not the end of the struggle. We are quite aware that the majority of the people in our country have been disadvantaged. The social system, the social fabric is disorganised. People are faced by social evils like lack of housing, teenage pregnancy, all the characteristics of a Third World country. We need to transform our country to a level where there is a relatively equal distribution of resources and skills.
We are requesting that the international community not forget the ANC during the formative period of government. Continued aid and solidarity will be appreciated during the restoration of the social order. When I say social order, I don't mean police and security, I mean schooling and health systems.
Magadazi: The major challenge is the reconstruction of our country. Economically our country is now in a state of disaster. It is our duty to go hand in hand with the ANC to reconstruct our country, to show the people that democratic socialist organisation can deliver the goods.
Can you talk about the issue of abortion and women's right to choose? I understand that the ANC has no firm position yet. What is the view of the Women's League on this issue?
Nciza: One of our commissions at the December national conference will be addressing the abortion issue.
Our country is largely conservative and I think even our black folks have been socialised in an atmosphere of conservatism along with the influence of religion. So it makes even those that would benefit from abortion hesitant to come out.
There will be a need for a people's education campaign around abortion, so that we don't alienate our potential followers. In South Africa this is a very critical issue. As individuals we might have our own principles, but now we are talking about the organisational standpoint. The Women's League hasn't finalised its stand on this sensitive issue.