Jose Ramos Horta is the special representative of the National Council for Maubere Resistance (CNRM). Along with other members of the East Timorese Diplomatic Front, he was in London during the recent meeting between the Portuguese and Indonesian foreign ministers and the UN secretary-general. On January 23, he spoke to Max Lane from Green Left Weekly. Question: You visit Australia several times each year. How do you assess the development of public opinion on the East Timor issue here? I think there has been a dramatic change for the better. Hardly a day goes by that the East Timor issue is not reported upon in the media. Nobody is unaware of the issue and what is happening, and I think there are very few people who are not sympathetic. It is clear what the reasons for these developments are. Firstly, the tremendous growth in the resistance in East Timor itself has had an enormous impact everywhere. Along with this growth is the increasing sophistication of the resistance, both inside East Timor and outside. For example, there is now much more extensive use of the electronic media and of the internet in campaigning for East Timor. This growth and sophistication have also helped galvanise solidarity for East Timor. The crucial element here has been the work of the solidarity movement, the non-government organisations, the grassroots campaigners. These are the heroes of these developments.
Question: CNRM, FRETILIN and UDT, together with some of the solidarity groups, have proposed a national day of solidarity on August 18. What role do you hope that action can play in the Australian context? I hope that every individual Australian or resident in Australia will add their name, add their voice to this very basic demand that the Australian government drop its recognition of Indonesia's annexation of East Timor. Australia is the only western country to do so. It exposes the immoral, hypocritical and cowardly character of Australian foreign policy, a policy that recognises an occupation that is both illegal and brutal, an occupation of a small country by a big country. It truly points to the complete lack of sensitivity of the Australian government and its hypocrisy. The situation in East Timor and in West Papua also points to the complete ineffectiveness of this policy as far as delivering any improvements go. This same Labor government once recognised the Soviet Union's sovereignty over the Baltic states. This was an embarrassing diplomatic blunder, as a few years later those countries gained their independence. I often wonder: hasn't this government learned anything at all?
Question: How are campaigns developing in other parts of the world? It is amazing how internationalised the support for East Timor has become in recent years. There has been coverage on East Timor all during last week in Canada during the Canadian prime minister's visit to Indonesia. Over 1000 people rallied on December 7 in Canberra. East Timor is the number one issue in Ireland and is at the forefront of the agenda of the NGO movement in the UK. There has been a general change in perception on the issue throughout Europe. There is a big movement in new Zealand. In the south countries too, there have been advances. In Fiji there is growing support. An East Timor solidarity movement has started up in South Africa. There was a special session of the Brazilian congress last year on the East Timor issue. It became an issue in Chile last year when the government sacked the head of Chilean government television for broadcasting a one-hour show on the issue.
Question: What is the significance of the joint Indonesian-East Timorese embassy occupations in Jakarta on December 7? It is extremely heartening to see more and more Indonesians involved in going out onto the streets in support of the East Timorese, as well as the range of other actions that Indonesian NGOs have been taking. You know, it was in 1977 that I sat down in a little flat in Paris with two dissidents, exiled members of the Indonesian Communist Party, to draft the first open letter to the Indonesian young generation appealing for their support. Although then we didn't quite know who to send it to. In 1981 I also wrote to the human rights lawyer Buyung Nasution, making a similar appeal and challenging the Indonesian democrats to take up their moral responsibility on the issue. I must say, too, that the most consistent Indonesian supporter of independence for East Timor has been George Aditjondro, who, as early as 1974, was in favour of independence of East Timor.
Question: Is this increasing public support having an impact in the diplomatic arena? Most definitely. Indonesia now has to face criticism not just from western governments and solidarity movements but also from the south. It is impacting on ASEAN-European relations. There will be an ASEAN-European summit meeting on March 1-2 in Bangkok. Already there has been a related incident, with the Thai government refusing me entry to Thailand to teach in a diplomatic training course. Apparently the Thai Foreign Ministry has stated that even allowing me into Thailand a month before that meeting might sufficiently annoy Indonesia so that Suharto might boycott the summit. This is another symptom of Jakarta's desperation. And now the Suharto government is losing ground not only in the west and the south countries but also in its own country. With the end of the previous political docility in Indonesia, including on the East Timor issue, Jakarta has to deal with all its diplomatic problems knowing of the increasing discontent on the issue at home as well.
Question: What progress was made at the recent Portuguese-Indonesian-UN meetings in London? Almost zero. Indonesia is to blame for this. Once again, Indonesia has shown that it only knows the language of pressure, of direct action. Indonesia will not shift its policy on East Timor unless the costs of the occupation increase even further. There must be constant embarrassment. There must be more pressure.
Question: What will happen next on the diplomatic front? There was agreement in London that there be another round of all-inclusive talks amongst the East Timorese like the one held in Austria. The UN secretary-general and the Portuguese foreign minister pushed very hard on this, and Ali Alatas was forced to agree. But we are not so sure it will go ahead, as the last one did not work out well for Indonesia at all. There will be another round of talks with Portugal and Indonesia in July. Hopefully, the UN secretary-general will be presenting a package of recommendations addressing the root cause of the problem, namely, the Indonesia occupation itself. But as I said, any shift by Indonesia on this will require more pressure, more direct action, more upping of the costs for Indonesia. Let us escalate the struggle. I appeal again for everybody in Australia to support the August national day of action campaign demanding the derecognition of the Indonesian annexation.