World Social Forum: 'Time to aim beyond capitalism'

February 6, 2009
Issue 

The abridged interview below with Walden Bello, from Focus on the Global South, was carried out and published by Alejandro Kirk for the Inter-Press Service about the tasks facing the World Social Forum (WSF), which met between January 27 and February 1 in the Brazilian city of Belem. The full interview can be read at http://www.ipsnews.net.

In the context of the current global crisis, what is the WSF's most relevant task?

We are at a very critical historical juncture in which neoliberal capitalism is unravelling and I think that the WSF is a site where very serious discussions should be taking place, in terms of both anticipating what is the likely response of global capitalism as well as pushing forward alternatives to the current crisis.

It would be extremely critical for global civil society at this point to respond to this crisis beyond the kind of stabilising solutions you are beginning to see in Europe and the United States.

The capitalist elites are in many ways already going beyond neoliberalism, so I think on the one hand it is really important in Belem to come to a consensus about the crisis of capitalism and we ought to have very serious discussions on how to go beyond [such] solutions.

How can the WSF come out with such a response and how could it possibly implement it?

What you really need to look at seriously is to identify not just a crisis of neoliberalism but a crisis of capitalism. We're talking about the roots of the crisis being dynamic at the capitalist mode of production.

We really need to frame our responses in terms of common universal values, like the question of justice, the question of equity, creating an alternative that really cares for the welfare of people.

I think the discussion in Belem will really be very critical in terms of framing the alternatives.

In your writings you seem to avoid classical terms such as socialism, revolution and the like, to describe the kind of society the WSF should be looking forward to.

I do not shrink from articulating the alternative. We are looking at democratising the ownership of the means of production. Whether you call that socialism or people's democracy, or democratic socialism, what you are really talking about is democratic control of the economy.

Another dimension is the question of refocusing on the internal economy, the domestic economy instead of export markets and national economic development.

We would be talking about the critical importance of equity, fairly strong mechanisms of income and redistribution. And about an ecologically sustainable alternative.

Is something like this actually happening anywhere in the world right now?

I think what we are seeing are efforts along this line in a number of countries, certainly in Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela. I mean, of course each process has its own particularities, its own dynamics.

I would say that as the crisis deepens — and I think we are at the beginning stages of this crisis — people's struggles are going to go beyond the very traditional mechanisms of stabilisation now under way.

So I would imagine that we will see more and more of these efforts, for democratic control and participation as the crisis deepens.

There is also the risk of radical right-wing reactions such as those of France and Italy.

That is definitely a possibility. What we are going to see is three possibilities: a radicalisation to the left, a radicalisation to the right — this a great danger in the North, in places like Italy and France — or just paralysis.

So there is no guarantee that progressive alternatives are going to grow. Progressives, with their knowledge of society and their strategy, must fight for hegemony.

You have recently written that the global balance of power is shifting to the South.

What I mean is that what we've seen over the last decade has been the weakening of the traditional centre economies. We saw that the US went into this consumption, finance-driven form of capitalism, financed by China. Chinese credit has kept the US economy going.

In the last 10 to 15 years, countries like Brazil, China and India have become relatively stronger economic actors with the shift of jobs and capital; they have become the creditors of the North. That's what I mean in terms of balance of power.

I'm not saying they have become the new centre. Hegemonic power continues to be the North, especially the US.

In this context, how do you see the Israeli attack on Palestine?

I have held all along that there are certain key struggles that the WSF must take a very strong stand on. Definitely, the Palestinian issue is one of them.

The WSF should take a very strong stand condemning Israel and supporting the right of Palestinians to their own state, and supporting the right of return of Palestinians to what is now Israel.

I really feel the WSF can no longer say that we just want to provide a roof for discussions to take place. I have always said that that kind of academic posture will eventually dissipate the spirit of the WSF, and I think that has already happened to some extent.

To really reinforce its soul and continue to provide a strong kind of energy in support of civil society movements, the Palestine issue, and Afghanistan, the issue of capitalism really — these are issues in which the WSF must take a very strong stand.

Such an approach demands a permanent structure.

Yes, I think that we should find ways of really making the International Council a more accountable body. The problem now with the IC is that it is mainly a discussion group rather than a body with real effective powers to move the struggle on.

One of the problems of the WSF has been that there is no sense of accumulation of lessons from one WSF to another, so accountability, accumulation of lessons and decision-making that is democratic — this is the challenge of the WSF.

You need Green Left, and we need you!

Green Left is funded by contributions from readers and supporters. Help us reach our funding target.

Make a One-off Donation or choose from one of our Monthly Donation options.

Become a supporter to get the digital edition for $5 per month or the print edition for $10 per month. One-time payment options are available.

You can also call 1800 634 206 to make a donation or to become a supporter. Thank you.